>> no. but the fact is, that's not uncommon, either. >> reporter: to this day, charlie insists he didn't lie. but a jury didn't buy it, and the tape sure didn't help his case. >> i had a couple good liar loans out there. >> i did have liar loans, but i'm not the one who told the lies. >> reporter: who told the lies? >> the brokers, the banks, the people who -- as a borrower, we all know we're not in charge of the process. >> reporter: charlie was convicted in large part because of the testimony of the mortgage broker on one of his loans who, along with charlie's loan officer and the seller of the property, all pled guilty to conspiring to sell several banks a fraud mortgage. >> he's already pled guilty to mortgage fraud, to all these things. he forged his parents'